google.com, pub-2774194725043577, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0 L.A.Times Crossword Corner: Monday, August 10, 2015 Kevin Christian

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Aug 10, 2015

Monday, August 10, 2015 Kevin Christian

Theme: The Cousteau Collection - the latest thing in swimwear.

16A. Ineffective executive, metaphorically : EMPTY SUIT

20A. Flashy '40s-'60s Cadillac features : TAIL FINS or one word, tailfins.

35A. Underwater activity that requires the ends of 16-, 20-, 53- and 58-Across : SCUBA DIVING

53A. Identity-concealing attire, in a Dumas novel : IRON MASK. (Further info: Wiki)

58A. Brainstorming institution : THINK TANK

Argyle here. A thinking man's puzzle, although I overthought many clues yet there were some I couldn't think of the answer with out perps. 6,7,8 columns in the corners gives the grid an interesting look.

Across:

1. __ as a bird : FREE

5. Marina vessel : BOAT

9. Sudden fancy : WHIM

13. Civil rights icon Parks : ROSA

14. Scandinavian capital : OSLO

15. Ballerina Shearer : MOIRA. We had Moira Kelly last month and Moira Shearer in June. She has been clued as a ballet dancer and/or an actress.

18. Greek i's : IOTAs

19. Window insert : SCREEN

22. Creates, as a word : COINS

23. "Bad" cholesterol letters : LDL. (low-density lipoprotein)

24. Acapulco aunt : TIA. Spanish

25. Qty. : AMT. (amount)

26. Olden times : YORE

30. Auto collision safety device : AIRBAG

32. Ninnies : MORONS

34. Mozart's "__ kleine Nachtmusik" : EINE

38. TV's "__-Team" : THE A

40. Move around an axis : ROTATE

41. Ouija board event : SEANCE

44. Mess (with), in slang : FUTZ. I'm not touching this one.

45. Saint-Tropez sea : MER

48. End of a bray : HAW. Hee-Haw.

49. Egg cells : OVA

51. Fling with effort : HEAVE

56. Got money for, as a check : CASHED

57. Composer Ned : ROREM



60. City NW of Muskogee : TULSA

61. Steakhouse request : RARE

62. "What __ is new?" : ELSE

63. Criteria: Abbr. : STDS. (standards)

64. Med. school subject : ANATomy.

65. In a little while : SOON

Down:

1. Citrus-flavored diet drink : FRESCA. Fresca, a diet lime and grapefruit citrus soft drink made by Coca-Cola, relies on a relatively small but loyal customer base.

2. "You've Got Mail" genre : ROM-COM. Romantic Comedy.

3. __ de corps: camaraderie : ESPRIT

4. All gone, dinnerwise : EATEN

5. Cap'n's underling : BOS'N

6. Sch. in Columbus : OSU. (Ohio State University)

7. Landed : ALIT

8. Sum : TOTAL

9. "Arf!" : [WOOF!]

10. Had a huge success : HIT IT BIG

11. Tehran native : IRANIAN

12. Part of many a spa package : MASSAGE

15. Pop music's __ Vanilli : MILLI

17. "Who me?" reply : "YES, YOU!"

21. Boise's state: Abbr. : IDAho, the "Gem State".

27. Heavenly sphere : ORB

28. Stadium din : ROAR

29. __ an era : END OF

31. Thinker Descartes : RENÉ. A thinking man.

32. Thom of shoes : McAN

33. In __: as found : SITU

35. San Diego marine mammal park : SEAWORLD. (SeaWorld)

36. Winery container : VAT

37. Violinist Perlman : ITZHAK



38. Some have V-necks : T-SHIRTS

39. Listen to without interrupting : HEAR OUT

42. Punctuation in many lists : COMMA

43. Actress Longoria : EVA

45. Hawaiian thank-you : MAHALO

46. Be that as it may : EVEN SO

47. L'Oréal hair care brand : REDKEN

50. Stars, to Caesar : ASTRA

52. Politician Kefauver : ESTES. Running mate of presidential nominee Adlai Stevenson.

54. Loch of legend : NESS

55. Kublai __ : KHAN

56. Tech news website : CNET. It is not (Centre National d'Études des Télécommunications), it is C|net Networks but what that means, I don't know.

59. Fund for the golden yrs. : IRA. (Individual Retirement Account)

Argyle


74 comments:

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

Got through this one quickly enough for a Monday, but was very surprised to see MOIRA, ITZHAK, ROREM and REDKEN in the grid. The perps got me over the bumps, but I really thought I had finished with an error when I saw REDKEN. I'm sure it's incredibly well-known and popular, but I swear I have never heard of it before. The other obscurities were at least semi-familiar to me (although I had a hard time coming up with the correct spelling of ITZHAK at first).

Lemonade714 said...

I almost FUTZED up the middle but in the end it was a Monday solve and very enjoyable.
The grid and low three letter word count along with some fill that required thought were a pleasant challenge to start the work week.

Today we begin our training on the Apple computer at the new office.

Have a great week all

OwenKL said...

ANYWAY before EVEN SO and misspelling ITZACK and KAHN slowed me down in the SE, but otherwise a typical Monday speed run.

There once was a DIVER who thought SCUBA was grand
He was FREE in the MER, as he wasn't on land.
He could fly, he could float,
Feel the keel of the BOAT --
And hide underwater when gendarmes came on hand!

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

I misread "executive" as "excuse." Thought the answer was weird until Argyle set me straight. When it's the "actress" clue, you need to wait on perps to decide is it MOIRA or NORMA?

The 1950 Cadillac had a flip-up tail light at the end of the tail fin. The gasoline filler was inside. My dad had a 1950 Caddy hearse which I thought would make a dandy car for college. He sold it, instead.

With FU__ in place, I wondered where we were heading. Whew!

We never say Iraqian -- just Iraqi. So why do we say IRANIAN?

Speaking of words beginning with IRA -- next year I have to remember to start taking those MRD's. The penalty for failure is steep!

Anonymous said...

Argyle, I'm not positive but I think the CNET referenced in 56d is this one and not this one. Confused? I know I am....

Husker Gary said...

Musings
-Some farmers south of here may need SCUBA equipment after 4” of rain on Saturday night
-I’ve never had a WHIM to own a BOAT
-We saw Ricki And The Flash on the big SCREEN yesterday starring Meryl Streep and her real-life daughter as her, uh, daughter
-Bugs’ take on MORON (:06)
-Oops, carelessness! FUSS came in and never left. FUTZ?
-People in Muskogee and Tulsa would name another OSU
-Hilarious MASSAGE misunderstanding (1:15)
-Have you ever left a stadium thinking your team was doomed to defeat and then hear a huge ROAR on the way to the car that tells you, “not so much”?
-Do you use a COMMA before the “and” in a list? I was taught that but today…
-I doubt if EVA and Meryl ever read for the same part
-I’d wager most of us here would know the movie that featured this “SOON” wall hanging
-Off to take Lily to the vet for two shots. Not looking forward to it.

Tinbeni said...

Argyle: Wonderful write-up & links. Good Job!

OK, I will admit to needing ESP to get MOIRA, ROREM & REDKEN plus the spelling of ITZHAK but they were all do-able.

Never used the word FUTZ before ... but it's been added to my vocabulary.

Husker: Thanks for the "SOON" wall hanging link.

Hope everyone has a beautiful week.
Cheers!

Irish Miss said...

Good Morning:

This was fun and easy, breezy except for Norma before Moira which is a mistake I always make. Didn't know the Hawaiian thank you but perps solved that. Thanks Kevin and Argyle for a merry Monday morning.

Tin, I hope you saw your "Pinch" CSO yesterday. HG, Meryl's daughter, Mammie, has appeared in several episodes of The Good Wife; she's very good. She has two other daughters, one in show biz and I'm not sure of the other's field. BTW, I, for one, don't know the SOON sign movie. 🎬

Sunny and pleasant right now, but heavy storms expected later in the day, into tomorrow.

Have a great day.

SwampCat said...


Fast and fun today. What's not to like? Thanks for walking us through it, Argyle.

I even remembered how to spell ITZHAK. Whew! And FUTZ was filled by perps so I didn't have to think about it.

My one hang-up was ROMCOM. It that really a word? It made sense...sorta.... once it filled itself in, but I've never heard it used by real people.

Happy Monday!

SwampCat said...


..and thanks, Owen, for your rhymes! I miss you when you're not here.

TTP said...

Good morning all. Thank you Kevin Christian and thank you Argyle.

Did this puzzle more or less on a beeline from TULSA to Muskogee. Then back up to Chouteau, west again to Catoosa, south to Beggs, west to ...

If you were to drive US 69 across the SOONer State from Durant to Big Cabin, you would get a real good feel for eastern Oklahoma. Expansive, scenic, and, IMHO rusticlly beautiful.

I had a type-over at ITZHAK. HEAVE and CASHED fixed that.

Argyle, good call not to mess around with 44a. We wouldn't want your review to be rated NSFW.

I didn't know FUTZ, and thought I knew putz, but after reading putz vs futz, I guess I didn't. People must have thought I was nutz. (Owen, can you do something with that ?)

Never saw ESTES until your review.


Anonymous said...

Enjoyed this one

oc4beach said...

Nice easy Monday. I had TAILFINS, so at 35a SCUBADIVING had to be the answer. Everything fell into place after that.

How many of you remember the TV show "Sea Hunt" with Lloyd Bridges back in the late 50's and early 60's? I enjoyed it. It was sort of campy, but what TV adventure show back then wasn't a little corny. After all, how many times can Timmy fall down in the well.

I also had NORMA at first, but the perps changed it.

Most men shouldn't have any clue about the cosmetics brand REDKEN, but my wife always had to get a "Redken" perm at the hairdressers because she said it was mild and didn't irritate her head. I think it still stunk to high heaven.

It's supposed to rain later today which we need. My grass is turning brown.

I hope everyone has a great day.

Bluehen said...

Of all things, a FIW on a Monday. I thought the composer Ned's last name was ROREr, never noticing what that did to the perps. After all, we've all punctuated a sentence using a COMrA, haven't we? I blame it on the hay fever draining all my spark and enthusiasm, such as they were. Lately, all my energy has gone into producing what ends up in facial tissues. I never knew I had so much energy! We're expecting showers for the next day and a half, and I'm hoping that clears the air and washes the pavements.

Not much else to report. HG, another request for what's the movie?

Cya.

VirginiaSycamore said...

I looked up the meaning of FUTZ. The New Oxford American Dictionary of English on my Kindle says:
FUTZ: v. [intrans.]
NORTH AMERICAN INFORMAL waste time: idle or busy oneself aimlessly: "mother futzed around in the kitchen."
SPECIAL USAGE: (futz around with)deal with (something) in a trifling way;fiddle with: "Mick was futzing around with his camera equipment.
1930s: perhaps an alteration of Yiddish arumfartzen "fart about".

This does not imply breaking something or doing anything poorly. Just wasting time. Fart about or fart around with seems the cruder but accurate equivalent phrase.

I had to look up ROMCOM too. Too learn it was about a ROMantic COMedy. I kept thinking, I know AOL sent out millions of free CDs, but why ROMs?

I vaguely recalled REDKIN from perks. But unlike Barry, I read my share of women's magazines. But I don't think it is a current brand.

Otherwise, a nice Monday romp and I needed perps for some of the clues but didn't need red letters.

Anonymous said...

VS said . . . I vaguely recalled REDKIN from perks.

Perks?

Anyway, anyone who has ever walked past a beauty parlor (hair salon?) has probably seen a REDKEN decal on the door.

HeartRx said...

Good Morning!

This was a fun romp. Even though it's Monday, I still hate to see the reveal in the middle of the puzzle. I really like to guess at the theme myself first.

I didn't even see REDKEN, since it had filled with the across answers. But I probably would have relied on perps anyway, since I am not proficient in all my beauty brands! And one of these days, I am going to remember how to spell ISZTHDACK...

Jazzbumpa said...

Hi gang -

Pretty much WBS. Surprising number if unknowns for a Monday [MAHALO? really?], but they all perped [or perhaps perked] out.

ROMCOM is not obscure, a bit surprising that people don't know it.

I don't have Bluehens affliction, but I am feeling just as listless.

Cool regards!
JzB

Yellowrocks said...

Did this one pretty much from top to bottom, so I came across the reveal half way through. Entertaining puzzle and expo.
ROMCOM and REDKEN were new to me but doable. I'm not into hair dye. Now I am salt and pepper, getting more salty at every haircut.
I am so accustomed to the Yiddish which has slipped into the everyday language of even us non Jews here that I am unreasonably surprised to find that the expressions are not universal. Virginia S., right on, that's how we use it. We also use it for "putter around", do little things of little consequence.
I am sure VS meant PERPS, not PERKS
What a nice run of great weather! We can enjoy driving with the car windows down and sleeping with the bedroom windows open. For me temps in the 50s through the low 80s with low humidity are ideal and we have many days like that in this climate. HHH is not for me.

Spitzboov said...

Good morning everyone.

Easy solve today. Only small hiccup was sorting through the fill in the SE; not familiar with MAHALO and REDKIN. But perps came to the rescue and it was done.
BO'S'N may be the captain's underling, but so is everyone else on the ship.

Jayce said...

Hello everybody. Fun puzzle, albeit pretty easy (as expected on Monday.) Only unknown to me was REDKEN. Owen, thanks for your verse. Best wishes to you all.

coneyro said...

Mostly Monday level puzzle with a few "have to think about it" moments.

MOIRA, ROREM, REDKIN, EINE...perp help. ITZHAK originally had a "C" instead of a "Z".

Loved the Yiddish word FUTZ, as in, "Stop FUTZing around, and do your homework, already." A very common expression in a Jewish household. If you weren't doing something constructive, or wasting your time, or trying to fix something you know you couldn't, this word was used. Better than saying "farting" which is a literal translation.

Ah...memories of being slapped in the back of the head after FUTZING around, and being called a MORON. Lovingly, of course.

My father used to work for Tom McCan. That was standard footwear for the suited businessman.
As casualwear, such as sneakers, started to take over, their sales plummeted. I guess they had to reinvent themselves to stay marketable.

Hope everyone has a good week. Stay warm and safe.





xtulmkr said...

HG: The Shawshank Redemption. And now I think I will spend the rest of the day watching the Pink Panther movies, thanks to your clip.

VirginiaSycamore said...

Thanks, Yellowrocks for correcting my typo.

When the kids were small we went to Tom McCan because they would replace shoes if the child outgrew them before they wore out. I don't think that ever happened though! My boys were tough on shoes.

Husker Gary said...

Musings 2
-Back from 18 holes on a gorgeous late summer day!
-Yes xtulmkr (my spell check just had a migraine!), here’s the movie with that wall hanging!
-I'm going to go check my phone to see if I have a MASSAGE!
-I agree Marti, I like the reveal at the end to see if my meager faculties can find the theme, but que, sera, sera.
-Still would like to know what you think - Is it "Gypsies, tramps and thieves" or "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves." I'm sure I as taught the latter use of the COMMA"

Bluehen said...

HG, I was taught like you, except lately I've been using COMrAs.

Misty said...

Well, it was a relief to get this Monday speed run after the tough time I had with the Friday and Saturday puzzles last week. Many thanks, Kevin, and you too, Argyle, as always.

Viginia, those were really helpful explanations--many thanks.

Have a great week, everybody!

Kevin Christian said...

Hi, this is Kevin Christian, I'm the constructor of today's puzzle. Thank you everyone for working it and for your kind comments.

I originally got the idea for this puzzle while attending the ACPT in New York City in March 2014. I remember discussing it with Loren Smith whose SURROUND SOUND puzzle was published recently.

One of the things I like about how this puzzle turned out is that the length 11 answer across the middle made it easy to have nice open corners with long down fill.

FUTZ was originally going to be PUTZ but Rich said some people find that term offensive so he asked me to change it.

ROMCOM has been used in a puzzle before, but not often, so it was fun to get that in there. I think my original clue was "Frequent Katherine Heigl movie vehicle" or something like that but Rich changed it.

REDKEN has never been used in a puzzle before as far as I can tell. It's very familiar to me because it's in the window of several beauty parlors in my hometown's downtown area. I pass by them when I'm walking the dogs. Anytime I see a phrase or word out in the world in real life, if it's never been in a crossword before, then I add it to my list of fill words to try to use someday.

Later. - KevinC

desper-otto said...

Husker, I'd vote for the former, but I'm inconsistently consistent.

Ol' Man Keith said...

Mondays are getting harder. Not truly hard, but enough of a challenge to make them worthwhile. I was thrown today by REDKEN, which was not only new to me but which I filled wrongly as DEDKEN. (45A can just as correctly be MED as MER.)

Ol' Man Keith said...

Correction: Looking again, I see that the clue for 45A, "Saint-Tropez sea," should have warned me not to use MED, the abbreviation for Mediterranean. I would only have been justified if the clue had been "St.-Tropez sea."

Bill G. said...

Gary and everybody, I always used to put a comma before the 'and' in a list. This convention is not a matter of correct or incorrect grammar but of Style. When I started writing a column for the local newspaper, they used The New York Times style manual (I think) and they explained that according to their style manual, I had to leave out that last comma. There were other examples of 'Style' also. For example, I was supposed to write out numerals from one to nine but use digits for numerals of 10 or greater. A two-word modifier was always hyphenated. There were lots more too but these come immediately to mind.

SwampCat said...


Bill G, you beat me to the NYTimes style book!

I was taught ...indoctrinated? ... that the comma replaced the word "and". So if you want to say Gypsies and tramps and thieves but save a word, it would become Gypsies, tramps and thieves. Never made sense to me but I obeyed!

In a short sequence it works either way, but when you are listing longer phrases it is easy to get lost without that final comma.

But it all just "Style" !!

SwampCat said...

Kevin, thanks for stopping by. I really enjoyed some of your NEW words and fills. Mahalo!

Anonymous said...

Busker, I concur with D-O at 1:47 PM. At least that is what I was taught back in good old St. Petersburg High school in the '50's,but as always, I could be wrong. Nice Monday offering. Appreciated Kevin C.'s checking in for further explanation. I always like to see words that have never been, or randomly used.

I typed Busker,but the kindle changed it on me. Oh, well it did it again. You know who I mean. Apologies in advance if it is sent incorrectly. Wow I just noted that
SELDOMLY turned into RANDOMLY, which totally changed what I was saying. This is why I don't do this very often.

Cheers to all

Anonymous said...

Anyone else have a problem with the idea of YR getting saltier? Stay the way you are, girl, you're just right.

Ol' Man Keith said...

The final comma in a series, the one before a conjunction, is known as the "Oxford comma" or the "Harvard comma." As Bill G says, it is a matter of style, although over the years I have come across many arguments insisting on the logic of it - and just as vociferously arguing against it. My favorite argument FOR it is to be sure to distinguish between truly individual items and single items that go by a double name, such as "bed and breakfast" or "fish 'n chips."

Avg Joe said...

I agree with the comments that this was "hard" for a Monday...and that that's a good thing. No major hang ups, but it made you think. Also agree with Marti on the placement of the reveal. I normally try to avoid one, when present. Today's was not avoidable. But it didn't really help any either. Moira was all perps (though it seems familiar). Redken was known as I've seen the signs any number of times. Knew Itzhak immediately, but needed perp help on the spelling.

On the Oxford comma: I took a state required CE course on writing this spring, and that topic was addressed at length. Yeah. I know. Pretty exciting. Talking about a comma for half an hour! At any rate, the instructor maintained that the "proper" treatment at the end of a series is to not use a comma preceding "and". But he also allowed that this is yet another convention in English that is evolving. So, while an acolyte of "Elements of Style", he also made it clear that it is not incorrect.....So I guess it's just one of those things that will never be settled to anyone's satisfaction. Continue as you have always done, IOW. :-)

Jayce said...

I vote for "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves" over "Gypsies, tramps and thieves" because that's what I was taught and to me it is clearer. Like the ol' "Toast, coffee, bacon and eggs and pancakes" as opposed to the more sensible (to me) "Toast, coffee, bacon and eggs, and pancakes." Eats, shoots, and leaves, etc.

Big Easy said...

Argyle- you have to be PC and call it a thinking "person's" puzzle. But not me as I'll never be PC.

FUTZ and ROManticCOMedy are were a word and term that I have never run across, but I don't read People Magazine. FUTZ was my only question because I was not sure how to spell ITZHAK, even though I knew the name. REDKEN was a product I am familiar with as my wife buys the shampoo by the quart, but it was also filled by perps, along with MOIRA, due to the fact that I didn't know which company currently owned it.

If Kevin had AIRHEAD instead of AIRBAG it would have complemented EMPTY SUIT very nicely.

HG- I once got tickets for the LSU homecoming game vs. Troy St. because the State representative gave them to someone who gave them to someone else who gave them to me. I thought the were great seats- 50 yard line 6 rows up. The wind was screaming from the north and the supposed 'patsy' team with second tier players was ahead 28-3 at the end of three quarters. All the politicians around us were long gone. We left with about 10 minutes remaining seeing that all hope was lost and before we got to the hotel, LSU had won.

Ol' Man Keith said...

Although I took a "neutral" stand, agreeing that it is a matter of style, I will go on record that I stand with Jayce on this. I use the Oxford comma (and used it for many years before it received its highfalutin honorfic title) for the very clarity that his examples demonstrate.

Yellowrocks said...

About the Oxford comma: Macht nichts, or as we said, macht nichts aus. It makes no difference. Our rich English language allows many variations . IMO the drive to find ONE correct way deminishes our complex heritage.
To the friendly Anon @ 2:38, thanks for the compliment.

.































Avg Joe said...

I guess I didn't take a stand on the comma. I swing both ways, depending on the complexity of the sentence. I worry more about making my point clear than I do about being correct. I've also been known to end a sentence in a preposition.

Ol' Man Keith said...

I am pretty consistent in using the Oxford comma. I don't have any animosity towards those who do not. The only thing that ever bugs me (as I point out to my students) is inconsistency. Just because it's a matter of style and es macht nichts doesn't mean you don't grant it a meaning - once you make your choice.

SwampCat said...



What fun to be "fighting" over a comma!! Who knew?

I used the Oxford comma when I had to...now I just say whatever seems to be clearer....and that OFTEN includes incorrect grammar...and anything else!

I do know the rules when I have to use them.

Communication is everything!

TTP said...

Add me to the Oxford camp. I'm pretty sure I've always added that last comma. I do seem to remember that an English teacher in high school always circled it in red in essays but never took points away.

I tend to use a lot of commas in my run-on sentences.

Yesterday I wrote, "...perhaps I can join Gary, Tom Pepper, Chairman Moe, et alia in the Hole In One Club." The intention was "and others."

Was that usage incorrect ? Is it that et alii means "and others" and et alia means "and other things" ?

Spitzboov, from yesterday about spiel, thanks. That makes sense.

SwampCat said...

Jayce, re: Eats, shoots, and, leaves. Commas are important.

Let's eat, grandma.

is not the same as

Let's eat Grandma!

fermatprime said...

Greetings!

Thanks, Kevin and Santa! Enjoyed very fast puzzle.

MOIRA was the dancer of the two Shearers.

I watch Hawaii 5-0, so MAHALO was a gimmee.

Never heard of REDKEN. All perps.

Cheers!

Yellowrocks said...

In "Eats, shoots, and leaves" and "Let's eat Grandma" the comma or lack thereof adds clarity. In "We invited Jan, Bob and Joe" es macht nichts.
BTW the Bible verse, "They found Mary, Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger," has bothered me since I was a child. Were all three in the manger ? Would adding and between Mary and Joseph help?
I do agree that there should be consistency in style and in variant spelling within a piece.

Argyle said...

Shearer check:

Moira Shearer, a Scottish actress and dancer

Norma Shearer, a Canadian actress

Bluehen said...

AJ @ 4:15 Back in my salad days I was known to end a sentence with a proposition.

Jazzbumpa said...

I very much dislike the Oxford comma, but am quite intrigued by this one.

Cheers!
JzB

Jayce said...

I think I'll let you all argue about commas. I already stated my opinion, which is simply my opinion and style. I'm not going to bully anybody into thinking my way or agreeing with me.

Avg Joe said...

Menu notice: tonight we are having a medley of cultures. Hamburgers with the garden, eggplant breaded and fried, and okra with onions in EVO grilled.

Not only did I emulate BillG in that missive, I illustrated an instance where the use of the Oxford comma is appropriate. IMO, of course.

YR, I'd have to say that if that's the only thing about biblical entries that trouble you, you should look a little deeper :-)

Avg Joe said...

Can't argue with that, Bluehen. But I would stake claim to never having ended a proposition with a sentence.

Yellowrocks said...

Ave, Joe, we are talking about commas and grammar only. I have so much else I am dying to say but it is not allowed on this blog.

CrossEyedDave said...

Running late today,

no trouble with the puzzle...

I have had some problems with commas though...

Spitzboov said...

Re: PUTZ. If you google [Matthau Lemmon Putz] some interesting links come up. Don't think you have to worry about comma placement. :-)

SwampCat said...

Blue hen, ending a sentence with a preposition reminds me of Winston Churchill's editorial remarks when a young copy writer changed his copy for the grievous sin of an ending preposition....." This is one thing up with which I will not put". Hehehehe

Mike Sherline said...

I started 1st grade in 1950, so learned the "Oxford" comma; but its absence doesn't bother me - in fact I'm starting to leave it out myself most of the time. As others have said, whatever makes sense. What does bother me is all the extra commas some people add that don't appear to reflect any known pattern of speech.

The most horrible to me is the rapidly spreading use of 's for plurals; most of those who use it don't even use it consistently (I like crosswords, but some of the clue's are hard). I even saw what appeared to be a manufactured sign in a post office in the 80s that said: "Check's accepted with ID".

Jazzbumpa said...

Mike -

That can be rationalized as short for for "Check is accepted with ID."

I certainly could be spoken that way, and there is no reason for a plural in that context.

Cheers!
JzB

Madame Defarge said...

Ah, I'm lovin' this discussion! My Master's Thesis is entitled "Two Approaches to Teaching Grammar." Ha! Compelling reading! Probably of most interest to insomniacs. I love this CORNER of my world!!!

By the way, Kevin, thanks for stopping by. I like to hear about the process and problems of construction.

When I was a boy said...

Very typical opinions. Whenever what is taught once young is disputed, one is want to reject. I find this so-called Oxford comma unsightly. The "and" provides the sequence. You people are old....-fashioned.

I'm Out,

Young Teach


P.S. I want to say "my bad" so badly, so I did.

Anonymous said...

I'll have the tomato soup, ham and cheese and coffee.
I'll have the tomato soup, ham and cheese, and coffee.

Yellowrocks said...

I am sure you meant, "one is WONT to reject."

Old Teach

too young to forget old tricks said...

damn autocorrect.

thanks yr, i can always count on you.

Anonymous said...

"Whenever what is taught once young is disputed, one is wont to reject."

Is this plagiarized? So profound!

Anonymous said...

Damn, I'm so good, I am able to rhyme in consecutive posts.

Anonymous said...

Anon, before you type, you should consider your hosts.

pms. I hit my number

Mike Sherline said...

Jazz - I'm sure they meant it to be plural, not contraction.

OwenKL said...

For TTP:

I shoulda known better than with limericks to FUTZ,
Try calling them poems, and folks think yer NUTZ!
But no one reads sonnets,
(They make great sleep tonics)
If I stopped writing limericks, I'd be branded a PUTZ!

OwenKL said...

The Oxford comma -- I'm not consistent, however I usually use it for clarity. But I tend to overuse commas. Commas represent pauses. The lyrics in question go "Gypsies, tramps-and-thieves", so no comma in the song.

Mike Sherline said...

....well, pretty sure. Actually never thought of singular contraction. "Your check is accepted" seems pretty awkward, as opposed to "All of your checks are accepted..."

TTP said...

Thanks Owen. All this time I've said "putzing around the house", and what I think I should have been saying was "puttering around the house."